KIPP Good. Parents Bad.

What you describe is both elitist and creepy.
It’s elitist in that they are basically saying that the parents shouldn’t bother trying to help with homework or do too much-they might collapse under the strain.
It’s creepy in that it’s saying-don’t worry about a thing-we’ll take care of everything-just turn your children over to us.

I HAVE to comment on this article because I cannot sit and watch as someone tries to bash on a program that I am a part of. I am a KIPP alumni. About one week ago, I completed my third year at a New England boarding school on a $40,000 scholarship. Both KIPP AND my parents helped me earn my acceptance letter to my school. Now, both KIPP AND my parents are helping me during the college process. KIPP understands that low-income children have parents who return to their homes from work not only mentaly but also physicaly exhausted. Now - yes - it can be said that this is the case for many parents, low-income or not, but there are also MANY KIPP parents that cannot help, even if they wanted to. My parents, for example, speak very little English, so my asking them for help on English assignments would be pointless. I, of course, have taken it upon myself to teach my parents as much English as I possibly can. The observation you have made can be made only by someone who would take the course of action the observer described: a parent who is too obtuse to realize that mental support goes a long way, too. Since when has mental support not counted as support at all? Parents have a tremendous role in the KIPP years; I, along with my parents, am living proof of that.

Actually, Ismael, you are a KIPP alumnus, not an alumni-unless of course you are more than one person.

I am going to assume, if what you say is true and you are in fact a KIPP ALUMNI, that you probably would have succeeded in any school because your parents were involved. Congratulations, you have done exactly what you were supposed to do:succeeded in school and attempt to go to college. You don’t get brownie points for doing what you are supposed to do. And neither do your parents.

However, I cannot understand the whole “parents are too tired” mentality. When you have children you give up your right to sleep. You work, support them and make sure that they have better lives. You raise them. You are responsible for their education. You set rules. You sacrifice.

And so, they were non-English speakers. So were THOUSAND of immigrants who came to this country and sent their children to public school. And their children did well. The kids taught the parents English (as you say you have done) and when they needed help doing homework they got it from classmates and relatives etc.

Public School managed to educate millions of children. They worked once. And now they are failing. Does that mean that you give up on the idea of public schools and go private? If parents are not educated enough to help their children does that mean you take the responsibility out of the parents’ hands or do you help FIX the problem?

No. That means you address the problem.

I cannot stand this idea that we are not supposed to address the problems but instead we are supposed to ignore it and create fixes that go to the extremes: Public Schools don’t work- go private. Parents are not taking responsibility- get them out of the picture.

How about we just kill all low-income parents and place their children in factories, I mean KIPP schools.

And BTW, you call taking a child to the bus stop and signing homework mental support?

And I would rather my kid to go to the library for help so that they can learn how to find their answers themselves rather than have them just call a teacher every time they are stuck. That’s just teaching them to transfer dependance.

You admit that you have never visited a KIPP school. Why are you bashing something of which you do not know? Is the anonymity of the Internet really getting to your head?

Instead of dismissing Ismael Perez because of his bad grammar (which, by the way, is totally acceptable within the confines of vernacular English), take a step back and note what he has to offer: experience, which you do not seem to have.

I do not think you understand the severity of the achievement gap. Not everyone has access to good teachers and good schools. Not everyone has the money to go to private schools. KIPP academies do so much more than “demand very little from parents”. They offer opportunities that would not otherwise exist for these children.

1) It is NOT acceptable to butcher the English Language.
2) We do NOT celebrate mediocrity here.
3) I do not have to visit hell to know that I won’t like what it has to offer.

I done never been tos dem KIPP schools. Does them lets you talks in “vernacular English”?
If them does them I be wantin’ to sees dem school.

1. You’re right. Unfortunately, Ismael didn’t butcher English. He made a typo, or at worst he messed up on a word that is commonly misused in spoken English (most people say the plural form “alumni” instead of the singular form “alumnus/alumna” when referring to themselves). Get over it and continue on with your pathetic Internet troll lives.

2. No, we do not celebrate mediocrity. However, many crappy public schools that poor people go to do. These people go into 9th grade on a 5th grade reading level because mediocre teachers are allowed to teach in classrooms. If you put these people in a classroom with a good teacher, they learn just fine. If you abhor mediocrity, then work on public school reform. Don’t spend your lives on the Internet arguing over spelling and grammar.

3. You are assuming that KIPP schools are unpleasant. No one has actually GONE to a KIPP school and said that it sucked. Only the opposite has been true. You should instead say that you don’t have to visit HEAVEN to know that you’ll like what it has to offer. Your analogy fails you.

Although personally, I’d much rather go to hell than be stuck in heaven with an arrogant prick like you.

—

Actually, most alumni of KIPP schools are decently educated because the KIPP curriculum is more intense than its fellow inner city schools that it is supposed to replace. If you want to see your supposedly unacceptable vernacular English, go to an inner city public school.

—

I’m sure that you two care a lot about education, but you are missing the crux of the problem. Not every family has the resources to ship their children off to a better school. Some parents work two jobs to support their family. Some children are raised by single parents. Some are brought up by their siblings. Some parents are immigrants who do not understand English. If you don’t understand this, then you don’t understand what it means to be poor in the United States.

Not everyone is from an upper middle class family, but that doesn’t mean that their children do not have the right to a good education. KIPP is just one way to provide such an education. You may bash it, but it is still one of the better ideas out there. If you have a better FEASIBLE idea, then why don’t you express it?

First let me point out that you have a potty mouth.
That said, let me point out that you have no idea of the income level of either person who writes on this blog. Nor do you know who we are or what our backgrounds are like.
People like you do this kind of thing all the time-you speak without thinking.
You couldn’t possibly know if either of us is an immigrant or minority, if we grew up poor, if English is our second language, etc.
Maybe, just maybe, we know all about being poor in the United States. Maybe we have a very good understanding of what it is to be the child of immigrants.
Maybe that’s why we have such strong opinions.
You do not know us, nor do you have any idea of where we work, what we do or how committed we are to educating children in the inner city.
How can you possibly know what we have done to help educational reform?
Do you know how much volunteer work we do?
Educational activism we are involved with?
Lobbying efforts?
How many years we’ve devoted to working in the inner city schools under horrendous conditions and for sub-par salaries?
Again, you make assumptions.
I’ll never understand why some people shoot off their mouths without thinking.
“If you have a better FEASIBLE idea, then why don’t you express it?”
Have you read any of our posts?
All we do is express our opinions on improving education.
Here’s some ideas for you:
Raise the standard of living for individuals in low-income neighborhoods.
Think it can’t be done? That’s a crock of baloney.
Ask some of the individuals like the Walton family, who donate money to KIPP schools to start raising the wages of their employees.
I’ve written about the Waltons, owners of Walmart ad nauseum. They’re worth 1.9 billion each, yet they refuse to allow their workers basic health care or living wages.
It’s disgusting.
There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be poor in a country that produces the most billionaires in the world.
Corporations throw smoke screens about the state of education and trying to fix education when they are causing the huge disparities in income that lead to achievement gaps in the first place.
Corporate donors like Walmart donate money to ventures that serve their purposes.
KIPP serves a purpose for them and its not about helping poor, minority children.
If they were so concerned about poor minority children, then they would allow them basic health care.

An Internet troll is someone who goes to a site and posts just to start controversy. I think that describes you.

You say “don’t spend your lives on the Internet arguing over spelling and grammar” but maybe you need to take your own advice. You commented on our site we did not come to you. You felt the need to express your opinion and yet you criticize us for expressing our own.

AVIW is right- people like you do this all the time. You take time to point out the flaws in thinking that is not mainstream, but you never question your own thinking. You never challenge yourselves to see the bigger picture. Instead you are content to beat down any thoughts that are in opposition of your own.

It is obvious that you have not thoroughly read our blog nor have you fully grasped that which you have read. No one who has taken the time to read our posts can say that we are not aware of the problems facing low income students. We are in the struggle everyday getting our hands dirty and fighting the battle that those who fund KIPP, TFA, and Edison would rather not address. We are teaching students that they are responsible for their own successes and failures and despite their socio-economic circumstances they need to find the strength to fight. We teach them to survive in a world that doesn’t care what your circumstances may be- a world that will ignore your problems if it doesn’t support the bottom line.

KIPP teaches them to nod.

“I am going to assume, if what you say is true and you are in fact a KIPP ALUMNI, that you probably would have succeeded in any school because your parents were involved. Congratulations, you have done exactly what you were supposed to do: succeeded in school and attempt to go to college. You don’t get brownie points for doing what you are supposed to do. And neither do your parents.”
- I would not make that assumption. Why do I dare oppose? The fact that I was not taught any English grammar or vocabulary besides “Hello” and “Good-bye” until the 4th grade is one reason. While I was at KIPP, I learned that the nearest high school was closing because of the school’s failure to meet certain standards. These are not good signs. Now, having said that, I have not lost faith in the public school system because there are some amazing teachers, but my chances of going to college would have been extremely low had I stayed on the public school route I was on. Also, I did not realize that part of my response read as boasting, and I agree with you: my parents and I do not deserve brownie points.
“How about we just kill all low-income parents and place their children in factories, I mean KIPP schools.”
-Just out of curiosity, what do you think of KIPP’s latest products?
“And BTW, you call taking a child to the bus stop and signing homework mental support? And I would rather my kid to go to the library for help so that they can learn how to find their answers themselves rather than have them just call a teacher every time they are stuck. That’s just teaching them to transfer dependance.”
- I never explained what I meant by mental support (I apologize), and I can assure you that “taking a child to the bus stop and signing homework” is not my idea of mental support. (bit of a side note) I really do not like LItE’s original post because it goes under the impression that KIPP parents don’t do more than they are expected to do. I mean the parent associations we have are just for show, gosh, you caught us! Also, to clear things up, KIPP puts into place parent expectations, NOT limitations. (back to excerpt) As explained on my first post, I am currently in the college process, and I have read dozens of packets explaining how open the faculties are to extra-help. College students ask for help; why is it so bad for middle school students to do it? If anything, is it not a great way to prepare students on how and when to ask in the future? By the way, I did not call my teachers EVERY single time I was stuck; I have some perseverance. Please, do not insult me.

Thanks for the support Jo! And, yes, I do offer first-hand experience.

“I do not have to visit hell to know that I won’t like what it has to offer.”
-Why is there so much animosity? Let me give you some advice my KIPP teachers gave me:
Work Hard. Be nice.

“I done never been tos dem KIPP schools. Does them lets you talks in “vernacular English”?
If them does them I be wantin’ to sees dem school.”
-Wow.

“How can you possibly know what we have done to help educational reform?
Do you know how much volunteer work we do?
Educational activism we are involved with?
Lobbying efforts?
How many years we’ve devoted to working in the inner city schools under horrendous conditions and for sub-par salaries?”
-If you have done these things, THANK YOU!

“We are teaching students that they are responsible for their own successes and failures and despite their socio-economic circumstances they need to find the strength to fight. We teach them to survive in a world that doesn’t care what your circumstances may be- a world that will ignore your problems if it doesn’t support the bottom line. KIPP teaches them to nod.”
-Hmm, the last line sounds like an assumption to me. I mean, you did say, “Never having visited a KIPP school, I cannot speak as to what really goes on behind closed doors.” So, in my educated opinion, you have no right to write those words. Don’t worry; you will have a chance to apologize. Just so you know, my KIPP teachers taught me that, “[I am] responsible for [my] own successes and failures and despite [my] socio-economic circumstances [I] need to find the strength to fight. And I have.

Well, that is all I have to write…I think. I probably forgot something, but one of you (the responders) will probably remind me in some way, and I really need my rest, so that I can be ready to fight off stereotypes one day at a time.

Some responses to individual comments are not separated. Sorry!

Ismael:
When your friend Jo defended your improper use of grammar by stating that it was acceptable “vernacular”, I was very insulted-for you. This is the same condescending attitude that many individuals have towards minority and/or low income children-”we can’t really expect them to speak properly.” Most of the people who have these attitudes and low expectations don’t even realize that they do.
It’s the same attitude that my co-author responded to in the information about KIPP parents-we can’t expect too much from them.
There is a big difference between having compassion for someone’s situation and treating them with condescension.
Individuals who come into minority neighborhoods and decide what individuals are or are not capable of frighten me. Who are they to make such judgments? It’s completely prejudicial and very harmful, as the low expectations become institutionalized.

wasn’t clear again… I meant to say, “thank you for pointing out that I have more to offer than others do.”

[...] in such neighborhoods. No rich family would allow their child to be put in a corner because his/her parent did not sign his/her homework. They would be up in arms. They would cry that this is corporal punishment and that [...]